RINA Users Group
Mission
We are a RINA Users Group (RUG) in Japan. We are currently working with sponsorship from a communications service provider in Japan. We have weekly meetings to discuss the deployment challenges of RINA. The problems we solve are in preparation for a commercial RINA launch.
Key Performance Indicators
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Solve the dynamic namespace management, enrollment, flow allocation, resource allocation, routing, and security issues with a recursive taxonomic namespace service. All RINA stacks publicly available use static namespace management.
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Realize a commercial RINA deployment in Japan between two datacenters using ethernet / WDM before February 2021.
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Deploy a Cardano ADA staking host and relay nodes on the RINA network using IP over RINA by March of 2021.
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Work with the Cardano community to test and eventually upgrade the IP over RINA to Ouroboros over RINA using ethernet / WDM sans IP.
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Continuously promote and develop commercially viable RINA solutions and deployments.
Our Sponsor - GLBBJapan
Innovative communications service provider in Japan. www.glbb.jp
In order for Cardano to attract developers, entrepreneurs, businesses and DAPPS on their global decentralised blockchain over the next six months and beyond, RINA is needed to provide scalability to millions of users on the network.
RINA Questions and Answers from Cardano Community Members
Questions from the community in the LIVE Gauntlet Youtube Chat ( no we did not forget you!)
YOU asked we delivered - Questions ALL answered by Gary Blankenship the project CTO and jason.clark.durham and the RUG ) keep em` coming this is a RINA AMA !
USER: Create The Imaginable
Q/ Is there an open source RINA router implementation? Can RINA work with existing routers?
Answer: RINA is a router at every IPC so the question is a bit hard to orientate but will assume you mean are any open source stacks available for existing equipment and "Yes" with some challenges. Implementation on existing routers using RFC7426 seems the best option at this point even using Network Function Virtualization is an option with this SDN example.
Kyle Solomon
Q/ will the end result yield open source / open infrastructure contributions?
Answer: Yes. For example we have questioned the wisdom of how some things are done and we do plan to experiment. Once we have verified our experiments we will release for peer review and open source is the way we plan. We are planning to contribute 802.2 ethernet shim for example and it is an open milestone for the IRATI project if they will allow it.
Larry Last name
Q/ How will it work with dynamic WAN protocols, like BGP?
Answer: A RINA shim into the ethernet is just a gateway as a host to the IPv4/v6 cloud. Then the RINA host is seen in the BGP world as just a TCP/IP flow. RINA itself does not need these protocols, single destination, single source view of the tree with Dykstra Shortest Path First simplicity is enough but I would like to see flexible routing policies per IPC. Personal experience says when BGP next hops are routed over OSPF that is running over ISIS say over 802.1ah/802.1aq shortest path bridging is that you only need to play with one of those knobs to achieve your traffic engineering goals.
Sergio Marelli
Q/ this RINA technicals are difficult to follow for me ( can we get this explained in a Plain speak non technical version whiteboard)
Answer: TCP/IP is insecure and cannot scale. RINA can scale and is secure by nature. We need scaling due to the need to run private and public connections over one network that nowadays includes an internet of things. Core routers at service providers today have almost 850,000 best IPv4 routes and the IPv6 table is almost 100,000 routes already! These best routes are boiled down from peer routes all stored in the routing information base. After all this work, nobody can map a name to an address because another trusted 3rd party, DNS, is needed. This is centralized routing and naming. RINA will prioritize naming and deprecate the concept of global addressing. Addresses are not even needed on point-to-point links. Routing is done to a taxonomy and not to an address. Your address is private between the directly connected parties. RINA also brings the noise level of the internet way down as port scans and such will cease to a halt.
Kyle Solomon
Q/ yeah there needs to be global distance test (not just Tokyo to Tokyo but Tokyo to LA or example)
Answer: We will use the Viavi TB-5800-100G to discern our performance locally sans RINA with L1 BERT testing. After that we will test with RINA and some special tests we are planning. Once we know we have a working solution we do plan to connect a RINA node to a RINA node over our redundant 10G connections between LA and Tokyo.
Geoffrey Shearing
RINA is a better faster network protocol. WHY?
Answer: As related to Cardano it will allow it to do transactions faster as the resources will not have central bottlenecks. Existing protocols also assume too many errors and the largest Ethernet MTU's are not more than 10K bytes, usually 9,000 to 9,600 bytes are maximum transmission unit for PDU's over ethernet jumbo frames, RINA can get a lot more data through a flow in larger frames. Having an adjustable frame size only make sense nowadays as a normal enterprise 10G ethernet circuit is usually tested clean at line rate for 24 hours before putting into service. This means that the message can be in very large packets rather than broken into many small frames. I do not know the MTU that native RINA will settle but I suspect it to be much higher default than existing ethernet.
PlanetStake
Q/ OK, so RINA is decentralised internet data flow which can gain the benefits from TCP/IP or 5G, so it has nothing to do with speed?
*latency, not speed
Answer: Lower latency is a huge consideration when you consider the large frames that can be transferred by DTP which does not yet have a consensus limit for maximum transmission unit.
Create The Imaginable
Q/ Is there an open source software RINA router implementation that is planned? Can RINA work with existing routers?
Answer: I answered this question above
PlanetStake
Q/ How does RINA latency compare to 5G ?
Answer: Good question. Our experimentation is focused on the wired-line and not 5G. Generally speaking from the ISP business we are not seeing any decrease in demand for smoking fast fiber connectivity. Latency is going to be dependent on the bits required to encode the data. We know there are folks working with a Canadian provider to implement a RINA architecture but it is really not our project.
Create The Imaginable
Q/ RINA should be plug and play! Cant it be?
Answer: Yes, one of our many RINA projects focuses on how to RAMP up a network! We hope to talk abut this more in the future
yabishhh a
Q/ Can a staking pool in Rina have better ROI than a regular pool?
Answer: We think the main difference will be the connectivity of the ISP that you use. We are confident in the connectivity of AS55900 at two datacenters in Tokyo. Our interest is in RINA's success so we will do everything in our power to help it be above average but a lot of the fairness will remain in the hands of the Ouroboros protocol. One thing about "better" is that RINA networks need time and if Ouroboros Chronos can do that for RINA than the staking pool makes RINA better.
PlanetStake
Q/ Lower latency inernet then?
Yes, DTP encapsulation is superior to ethernet and IP encapsulation with a larger payload, not interrupting with the inter-frame gap every 64 to 1500 bytes (or 9600 bytes for jumbo frames)
ra Bliss
Q/ Jason you say RINA is far greater? HOW?
Answer: RINA is a scientific approach to cause and effect architecture design resulting in optimised distinct protocols and mechanisms required to deliver the equivalent core functionality of TCP/IP.
Marcin Rotter
Q/ Why do we have time limits on free webcast?
Answer: The various platforms ( like face book or YouTube) put various restrictions on their users to manage resources - A dedicated RINA DIF could one day make a decentralize platform do things the users want and not the platform wall street shareholders.
From Mark Stopka
Q/ You are proposing a test between to data centers connected through WDM What would be the distance between the 2 data centers ? Or expected latency in milli secs between the 2
Answer: We will use 25G DWDM SFP28 modules and measure latency with a Viavi TB-5800-100G for baseline L1 and L2 BERT tests. We will use organic GLBBJapan code for ethernet over RINA to take an L2 BERT baseline. There are native RINA performance tools we can compare such as rlite project baselines (https://github.com/rlite/rlite). We want to use Tokyo because it is the core of the transit links for AS55900. Expansion to Okinawa and Osaka in Japan and surely Los Angeles are on the radar of successes. We also plan to ride over IP to connect to our RINA network from remote solo nodes so we expect to gain lots of knowledge regarding latency over "time." Success breeds success!
Q/ Since you are implementing IP over RINA what kind results are you expecting to find from this experiment ? In terms of performance improvements or scalability ? What would be the deliverable of this initial research other than it worked ?
Answer: There are two elements here. One is RINA, the other is Cardano. GLBBJapan is implementing RINA. Cardano shim into RINA will actually start with TCP over RINA as that is the way their code would plug in today. We hope to encourage them to Ouroboros over RINA. We will report all of the Cardano test results in addition to the baseline RINA network measurements so the delta is understood at ever step. We do expect that the 25Gbps servers connected to the core 802.1ah/802.1aq SPBM fabric will see performance achievements over the standard cloud provider. Below is a performance measurement from one perspective of AS55900 verses Amazon AS16509. We think being in the core of AS55900 has advantages over being in the insecure userland of Amazon. It is a tenant of our RINA Users Group to focus on our partnerships to focus exactly on performance improvements and scalability and thank you for your focus on same.
https://radar.qrator.net/as55900
https://radar.qrator.net/as16509
Q/ What are the current limitation of the current internet with regards to using RINA technology over a long distance over the internet and would you need to replace core routers of all the major telcos like Verizon British telecom?
Answer: Our proposal is for RINA to ride over IP so nothing needs replacement. We feel the accountants will win in the end. One example is with MPLS. Recently, technologies like VXLAN are shredding MPLS in the market. Is RINA not the same? Like ZeroTier, could one use RINA and say 802.2 SNAP frames with RINA to expand the IPv4 address space by 24 bits of OUI (in the SNAP frame header?) Our proposal is to have fun and experiment and learn the answers to your questions as we surf the real commercial market opportunities. The RUG is not in charge of the project. This is a real R&D project already funded. The RUG is there to focus on use cases for the network.
Q/ Would rina over IP be a good concept ? Or is IP over RINA better ? Why
Does distance matter to the results ?
Answer: I think our RUG in Japan would want a RUG at that distant location or for that location to be under a network under 100% control so we can have exact telemetry. Distance is one thing to consider of course and in the connectivity business all you need is enough trust to establish a flow. We are very open to things especially considering the phased approach to the Catalyst funding by Cardano where perhaps we can fund other RUGs that have local RINA enclaves. I think this week our RUG meeting will discuss making a video to introduce ourselves to the community.
PHILIPPE (TCE HOST)
Q/ IF the RINA test proved to be positive how long would it take for us to implement something like that for all cardano nodes and is it even feasible would it involve all cardano nodes kinda of reinventing their node structure to run RINA ?
Answer: It would be seemless as it would be a migration from IP. We would hope when a Cardano node sees an IP interface it acts like IP and when it sees a RINA interface perhaps a RINA shim over ethernet / ip that it acts like RINA. Ethernet framing is really unnecessary for RINA so we are hoping we can develop Ouroboros directly over RINA for the future.
